Third time’s not the charm for Walmart’s healthcare delivery ambitions 

https://www.kaufmanhall.com/insights/blog/gist-weekly-may-10-2024

With Walmart’s announcement last week that it plans to shutter its Walmart Health business, this week’s graphic takes stock of the company’s healthcare delivery journey over nearly the past two decades.

In about 2007, Walmart launched “The Clinic at Walmart,” which leased retail space to various third-party retail clinic companies, and then later health systems, to provide basic primary care services inside Walmart stores, with the ambition of eventually becoming “the largest provider of primary healthcare services in the nation.”

However, low volumes and incompatible incentives between Walmart and its contractors led most of these clinics to close over time. In 2014 Walmart partnered with a single company, the worksite clinic provider QuadMed, to launch “Walmart Care Clinics.” These in-store clinics offered $4 visits for covered Walmart employees and $40 visits for the cash-paying public. Despite these low prices, this iteration of care clinic also suffered from low volumes, and Walmart scrapped the idea after opening only 19 of them. 

The retail giant’s most recent effort at care delivery began in 2019 with its revamped “Walmart Health Centers,” which it announced alongside its goal to “become America’s neighborhood health destination.” 

These health centers, which had separate entrances from the main store, featured physician-led, expanded primary care offerings including X-ray, labs, counseling, and dental services. As recently as April 2024, Walmart said it was planning to open almost two dozen more within the calendar year, until it announced it was shutting down its entire Walmart Health unit, which included virtual care offerings in addition to 51 health centers, citing an unfavorable operating environment. 

Despite multiple rebranding efforts, consumers have thus far appeared unwilling to see affordability-focused Walmart as a healthcare provider. 

Almost two decades of clinic experimentation have shown the company is willing to try things and admit failure, but it remains to be seen if this is just the end of Walmart’s latest phase or the end of the road for its healthcare delivery ambitions altogether.

Walmart announces closing of clinics and virtual care

https://www.healthcarefinancenews.com/news/walmart-announces-closing-clinics-and-virtual-care?mkt_tok=NDIwLVlOQS0yOTIAAAGSzraKE5ynKelzJqN_u6PkS2uiDa7kDhU8buZUg2FuUp8WbSLrwsIS6LTs5r1vnMTtXeXfGhlUj3HuY2B-390Y8ldBKzh1mYa3OKZNPISlq1s

Walmart is closing Walmart Health and Walmart Health Virtual Care, saying the business model was not profitable nor sustainable. 

The Walmart Health centers opened in 2019.

“Through our experience managing Walmart Health centers and Walmart Health Virtual Care, we determined there is not a sustainable business model for us to continue,” the company said by statement. “The decision to close all 51 health centers across five states and shut down the virtual care offering was not easy.”

WHY THIS MATTERS

Walmart said the challenging reimbursement environment and escalating operating costs created a lack of profitability.

It does not yet have a specific date for when each center will close, but would share that information “as soon as decisions are made.”

Its priority, Walmart said, was “ensuring the people and communities who are impacted are treated with the utmost respect, compassion and support throughout the transition. Today and in the coming days, we are focused on continuity of care for patients and providing impacted associates with respect and assistance as we begin the closing process of the healthcare centers.”

The clinics will continue to serve patients while they are open.

“Through their respective employers, these providers will be paid for 90 days, after which eligible providers will receive transition payments,” Walmart said.

All associates are eligible to transfer to any other Walmart or Sam’s Club location. They will be paid for 90 days, unless they transfer to another location during that time or leave the company, Walmart said. After 90 days, if they do not transfer or leave, eligible associates will receive severance benefits.

“We understand this change affects lives – the patients who receive care, the associates and providers who deliver care and the communities who supported us along the way,” Walmart said. 

THE LARGER TREND

Moving forward, Walmart said it would take what it has learned to provide health and wellness services across the country through its nearly 4,600 pharmacies and more than 3,000 vision centers. Both have been in operation for 40 years.

“Over the past few years, the importance of pharmacies has continued to grow, and we have expanded the clinical capabilities of the services we provide,” Walmart said. “We continue to offer immunizations and have grown to provide testing and treatment services, access to specialty pharmacy medication and care, as well as other essential services such as medication therapy management and a variety of health screenings. With more than 4,000 of our stores in medical provider shortage areas, our pharmacies are often the front door of healthcare.”

Walmart said it plans to launch more services such as the Walmart Healthcare Research Institute and health programs to join its fresh food and over-the-counter offerings.

Among the country’s largest grocers, Walmart plans this year to introduce a line of premium food called Bettergoods to compete against Trader Joe’s and Whole Foods, according to The Wall Street Journal.

However, share prices last week fell for Walmart and Kroger after Amazon unveiled a low-cost grocery delivery program, according to Seeking Alpha. Amazon is expanding its fresh-food business through a delivery subscription benefit in the United States for its Prime members and customers using an EBT (electronic benefits transfer) card. It outlined the $9.99 monthly plan last Tuesday, according to the report. Share prices for Walmart were down 1.55% as of this morning.

Walmart reportedly exploring purchase of ChenMed

https://mailchi.mp/e1b9f9c249d0/the-weekly-gist-september-15-2023?e=d1e747d2d8

Bloomberg reported this week that retail behemoth Walmart has engaged in talks to acquire a majority stake in ChenMed, a closely held value-based primary care company based in Miami, FL.

The deal would significantly expand Walmart’s primary care footprint and capabilities, adding to the 39 Walmart Health centers slated to be in operation by the end of this year. 

ChenMed, which operates 120+ clinics across 15 states, delivers primary care to complex Medicare Advantage beneficiaries, taking risk for the total cost of care, and has grown its membership by 36 percent annually across the last decade. It has remained privately owned by the Chen family, but recently revamped its leadership structure and tapped UnitedHealth Group (UHG) veteran Steve Nelson to run operations. ChenMed has an expected value of several billion dollars, a price that could be driven upwards if other bidders express interest. Bloomberg’s sources emphasized that the deal could still be weeks away and that no terms have been finalized.

The Gist: Should this purchase go through, it might change Walmart’s status as a “sleeping giant” in healthcare. 

ChenMed’s primary care model and strong foothold in the Southeast would dovetail with Walmart’s store clinic footprint and its 10-year partnership with UHG to drive value-based care adoption in that region. 

With ChenMed competitors Oak Street, One Medical, and VillageMD now backed or owned by some of Walmart’s biggest competitors, Walmart may view ChenMed as its best opportunity to scale its primary care footprint through a large acquisition. 

However, much of ChenMed’s success to date has been attributed to its strong culture and track record of physician recruitment and retention—something a large company like Walmart may have challenges preserving.  

Value-vased care battle: Kaiser-Geisinger vs. Amazon, CVS, Walmart

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/value-vased-care-battle-kaiser-geisinger-vs-amazon-cvs-pearl-m-d-/

For decades, research studies and news stories have concluded the American system is ineffective,

too expensive and falling further behind its international peers in important measures of performance: life expectancy, chronic-disease management and incidence of medical error.

As patients and healthcare professionals search for viable alternatives to the status quo, a recent mega-merger is raising new questions about the future of medicine.

In April,  Kaiser Permanente acquired Geisinger Health under the banner of newly formed Risant Health. With more than 185 years of combined care-delivery experience, Kaiser and Geisinger have long been held up as role models of the value-based care movement.

Eyeing the development, many speculated whether this deal will (a) ignite widespread healthcare transformation or (b) prove to be a desperate attempt at relevance (Kaiser) or survival (Geisinger).

Whether incumbents like Kaiser Permanente and Geisinger can lead a national healthcare transformation or are displaced by new entrants will depend largely on whether they can deliver value-based care on a national scale.

In Search Of Healthcare’s Holy Grail

Value-based care—the simultaneous provision of high quality, convenient and affordable medical care—has long been the aim of leading health systems like Kaiser, Geisinger, Mayo Clinic, Cleveland Clinic and dozens more.

But results to-date have often failed to match the vision.

The need for value-based care is urgent. That’s because U.S. health and economic problems are expected to get worse, not better, over the next decade. According to federal governmental actuaries, healthcare expenditures will rise from $4.2 trillion today to $7.2 trillion by 2031. At that time, these costs are predicted to consume an estimated 19.6% of the U.S. Gross Domestic Product.

Put simply: The U.S. will nearly double the cost of medical care without dramatically improving the health of the nation.

For decades, health policy experts have pointed out the inefficiencies in medical care delivery. Research has estimated that inappropriate tests and ineffective procedures account for more than 30% of all money spent on American medical care.

This combination of troubling economics and untapped opportunity explain why value-based care has become medicine’s holy grail. What’s uncertain is whether the transformation in healthcare delivery and financing will be led from inside or outside the healthcare system.

Where The Health-System Hopes Hang

For years, Kaiser Permanente has led the nation in clinical quality and patient outcomes based on independent, third-party research via the National Committee for Quality Assurance (NCQA) and Medicare Star ratings. Similarly, Geisinger was praised by President Obama for delivering high-quality care at a cost well below the national average.

And yet, these organizations, and many other highly regarded national and regional health systems, are extremely vulnerable to disruption, especially when their strategy and operational decisions fail to align.

Kaiser, for its part, has struggled with growth while Geisinger’s care-delivery strategy has proven unsuccessful in recent years. Failed expansion efforts forced KP to exit multiple U.S. markets, including New York, North Carolina, Kansas and Texas. More recently, several of its existing regions have failed to grow market share and weakened financially.

Meanwhile, Geisinger has fallen on hard times after decades of market domination. As Bob Herman reported in STAT News: “Failed acquisitions, antitrust scrutiny, leadership changes, growing competition from local players, and a pandemic that temporarily upended how patients got care have forced Geisinger to abandon its independence. The system is coming off a year in which it lost $240 million from its patient care and insurance operations.”

Putting the pieces together, I believe the Kaiser-Geisinger deal represents an industry undergoing massive change as health systems face intensifying pressure from insurers and a growing threat from retailers like Amazon, CVS and Walmart. This upcoming battle over the future of value-based care represents a classic conflict between incumbents and new entrants.

Can The World’s Largest Companies Disrupt U.S. Healthcare?

Retail giants, including Amazon, Walmart and CVS, are among the nation’s 10 largest companies based on annual revenue.

They have a broad geographic presence and strong relationships with almost all self-funded businesses. Nearly all have acquired the necessary healthcare pieces—including clinicians, home-health services, pharmacies, insurance arms and electronic medical record systems—to replace the current medical system.

And yet, while these companies expand into medical care and financing, their core businesses are struggling, resulting in announced store closures and layoffs. As newcomers to the healthcare market, they have been forced to pay premium dollars to acquire parts of the delivery system. All have a steep learning curve ahead of them.

The Challenge Of Healthcare Transformation

American medicine is a conglomerate of monopolies (insurers, hospitals, drug companies and private-equity-owned medical practices). Each works to maximize its own revenue and profit. All are unwilling to innovate in ways that benefit patients when doing so comes at the sacrifice of financial performance.

One problem stands at the center of America’s soaring healthcare costs: the way doctors, hospitals and drug companies are paid.

The dominant payment methodology in the United States, fee-for-service, rewards healthcare providers for charging higher prices and increasing the number (and complexity) of services offered—even when they provide no added value.

The message to doctors and hospitals is clear: The more you do, and the greater market control you have, the higher your income and profit. This is the antithesis of value-based care.

The alternative to fee-for-service payments, capitation, involves paying a single, up-front sum to the providers of care (doctors and hospitals) to cover the total annual cost for a population of patients. This model, unlike fee-for-service, rewards effectiveness and efficiency. Capitation creates incentives to prevent disease, reduce complications from chronic illness, and diminish the inefficiencies and redundancies present in care delivery. Capitated health systems that can prevent heart attacks, strokes and cancer better than others are more successful financially as a result. 

However, it’s harder than it sounds to translate what’s best for patients into everyday decisions and actions. It’s one thing to accept a capitated payment with the intent to implement value-based care. It’s another to put in place the complex operational improvements needed for success. Here are the roadblocks that Kaiser-Geisinger will face, followed by those the retail giants will encounter.

3 Challenges For Kaiser-Geisinger:

  1. Involving Clinical Experts. Kaiser Permanente is a two-part organization and when the insurance half (Kaiser) decided to acquire Geisinger, it did so without input or involvement from the half of the organization responsible for care-delivery (Permanente). This spells trouble for Geisinger, which must navigate a complex turnaround without the operational expertise or processes from Permanente that, in the past, helped Kaiser Permanente grow market share and lead the nation in clinical quality.
  2. Going All In. To meet the healthcare needs of most its patients, Geisinger relies on community doctors who are paid on a fee-for-service basis. Generally, the fee-for-service model is predicated on the assumption that higher quality and greater convenience require higher prices and increased costs. With Geisinger’s distributed model, it’ll be very difficult to deliver consistent, value-based care.
  3. Inspired Leadership. Major improvements in care delivery require skilled leadership with the authority to drive clinical change. In Kaiser Permanente, that comes through the medical group and its physician CEO. In Geisinger’s hybrid model, independent doctors have no direct oversight or central accountability structure. Although Risant Health could be an engine for value-based medical care, it’s more likely to serve the role of a “holding company,” capable of recommending operational improvements but incapable of driving meaningful change.

3 Challenges For The Retail Giants:

  • More Medical Offerings. Amazon, Walmart and CVS are successfully acquiring primary care (and associated telehealth) services. But competing with leading health systems will require a more wholistic, system-based approach to keep medical care affordable. This won’t be easy. To avoid ineffective, expensive specialty and hospital services, they will need to hire their own specialists to consult with their primary care doctors. And they will have to establish centers of excellence to provide heart surgery, cancer treatment, orthopedic care and more with industry-leading outcomes. But to meet the day-to-day and emergent needs of patients, they also will have to establish contracts with specialists and hospitals in every community they serve.  
  • Capitalizing On Capitation. Already, the retail giants have acquired organizations well-versed in delivering patient care through Medicare Advantage, a capitated alternative to traditional (fee-for-service) Medicare plans. It’s a good start. But the retailers must do more than dip a toe in value-based care models. They must find ways to gain sufficient experience with capitation and translate that success into value-based contracts with self-funded businesses, which insure tens of millions of patients.
  • Defining Leadership. Without an effective and proven clinical leadership structure, the retail giants will be no more effective than their mainstream competitors when it comes to implementing improvements and shifting the culture of medicine to one that is customer- and service-focused.

Be they incumbents or new entrants, every contender will hit a wall if they cling to today’s failing care delivery model. The secret ingredient, which most lack and all will need to embrace in the future, is system-ness.

For all of the hype surrounding value-based care, fragmentation and fee-for-service are far more common in American healthcare today than integration and capitation.

Part two of this article will focus on how these different organizations—one set inside and one set outside of medicine—can make the leap forward with system-ness. And, in the end, you’ll see who is most likely to emerge victorious.

Walmart Health continues rapid Florida expansion

Walmart Health opened three new clinics in Jacksonville, Fla., starting June 6 as the company continues its push into retail healthcare, the Florida Times-Union reported.

The retail giant now has more than 30 Walmart Health centers across Florida, Arkansas, Georgia, Illinois and Texas, with plans to grow to 77 by the end of 2024 and expand into Arizona and Missouri.

Florida is one of Walmart Health’s biggest markets, with 22 coming to the state by fall 2023. They are also located in the Orlando and Tampa metro areas. They include medical, dental, vision, hearing and behavioral health services.

“With only one primary care doctor per 1,380 Florida residents, these Walmart Health centers will help address the demand for care in three major cities in the Sunshine State,” David Carmouche, MD, senior vice president of omnichannel care offerings for Walmart, said in a 2022 Times-Union story. “We are part of these communities, and we are excited to bring more options for in-person and telehealth care services to our neighbors. We’re making healthcare available when and where you may need it.”

Walmart to open 4 new health centers

Retail giant Walmart announced the 2024 opening of four new health centers in Oklahoma.

Oklahoma joins Missouri and Arizona as the third state Walmart Health will enter in 2024. 

The 5,570-square-foot centers will be located next to Walmart retail locations and will include primary care, labs, X-rays, EKG, behavioral health, dental, hearing and telehealth services, according to an April 26 Walmart news release.

The health centers will use the Epic EHR system. The new locations will be in the Oklahoma City area, according to the release.

Pharmacy chains rapidly expand into primary care

https://mailchi.mp/cfd0577540a3/the-weekly-gist-november-11-2022?e=d1e747d2d8

Retailers and insurers are building out their primary care strategies in a bid to become the new front door for patients seeking healthcare services, especially seniors on highly profitable Medicare Advantage (MA) plans. In the graphic above, we examine the capabilities of three of the largest pharmacy chains—CVS Health, Walgreens, and Walmart—to deliver full-service primary care across in-person and virtual settings.

CVS pioneered the pivot to care provision in 2006 with its acquisition of MinuteClinic, which now has over 1,000 locations. The company has further expanded its concept of pairing retail and pharmacy services with primary care by opening over 100 HealthHUBs, which provide an expanded slate of care services. However, CVS lags competitors in the rollout of full-service primary care practices, with its proposed physician-led Super Clinics still stuck in the planning stages.

Walgreens, with its majority stake in VillageMD (on track for 200 co-branded practices by the end of the year) and the recent acquisition of Summit Health (which operates another 370 primary and urgent care clinics) has assembled the most impressive primary care footprint of the three companies. 

Walmart, the largest by number of stores but also the newest to healthcare, has opened more than 25 Walmart Health Centers, a step up from earlier experimentation with in-store care clinics, offering more services and partnering with Epic Systems to integrate electronic health records. 

CVS’s key advantage over its competitors comes from its payer business, having acquired Aetna in 2018, now the fourth-largest MA payer by membership. Walgreens and Walmart have both aligned themselves with UnitedHealth Group (UHG) to participate in MA, with Walmart having struck a ten-year partnership to steer UHG MA beneficiaries to Walmart Health Centers in Florida and Georgia. 

While aligning with UHG expands the reach of these retail giants into MA risk, UHG, whose OptumHealth division is by far the largest employer of physicians nationwide, remains the healthcare juggernaut most poised to unseat incumbent providers as the home for consumers’ healthcare needs.

The 18 health systems Walmart sends its employees to for care in 2022

In an effort to rein in healthcare costs for its employees, Walmart sends them directly to health systems that demonstrate high-quality care outcomes, otherwise known as Centers of Excellence.

Through the COE program, Walmart will cover the travel and treatment costs for employees seeking a range of services, but only with providers the company is contracted with. Walmart then reimburses with bundled payments negotiated with the providers.

To determine which providers get access to its 1.6 million employees, Walmart starts by examining health systems. Lisa Woods, vice president of physical and emotional well-being at Walmart, and her team analyze public data, distribute requests for information and conduct detailed on-site visits.

Below are the 18 health systems or campuses to which Walmart will refer patients for defined episodes of care in 2022. (See how COE participants have evolved since 2019 or 2021.)

Cardiac

Cleveland Clinic 

Geisinger Medical Center (Danville, Pa.)

Virginia Mason Medical Center (Seattle)

Weight loss surgery

Emory University Hospital (Atlanta)

Geisinger Medical Center (Danville, Pa.)

Intermountain Healthcare (Salt Lake City)

Northeast Baptist Hospital (San Antonio)

Northwest Medical Center (Springdale, Ark.)

Ochsner Medical Center (New Orleans)

Scripps Mercy Hospital (San Diego)

University Hospital (Cleveland)

Spine surgery

Emory University Hospital (Atlanta)

Geisinger Medical Center (Danville, Pa.)

Carolina NeuroSurgery & Spine Associates (Charlotte, N.C.)

Mercy Hospital Springfield (Mo.)

Mayo Clinic Arizona (Phoenix)

Mayo Clinic Florida (Jacksonville)

Mayo Clinic Minnesota (Rochester)

Memorial Hermann-Texas Medical Center (Houston)

Ochsner Medical Center (New Orleans)

Virginia Mason Medical Center (Seattle)

Breast, lung, colorectal, prostate

or blood cancer

Mayo Clinic Arizona (Phoenix)

Mayo Clinic Florida (Jacksonville)

Mayo Clinic Minnesota (Rochester)

Hip and knee replacements

Emory University Hospital (Atlanta)

Geisinger Medical Center (Danville, Pa.)

Johns Hopkins Bayview Medical Center (Baltimore)

Kaiser Permanente Irvine (Calif.) Medical Center

Mayo Clinic Florida (Jacksonville)

Mayo Clinic Minnesota (Rochester)

Mercy Hospital Springfield (Mo.)

Northeast Baptist Hospital (San Antonio)

Ochsner Medical Center (New Orleans)

Scripps Mercy Hospital (San Diego)

University Hospital (Cleveland)

Virginia Mason Medical Center (Seattle)

Organ and tissue transplants

(except cornea and intestinal)

Mayo Clinic Arizona (Phoenix)

Mayo Clinic Florida (Jacksonville)

Mayo Clinic Minnesota (Rochester)

Walmart partners with UnitedHealth Group (UHG) in its continued push into healthcare

https://mailchi.mp/6a3812741768/the-weekly-gist-september-9-2022?e=d1e747d2d8

The nation’s largest retailer and its largest insurer announced a 10-year partnership to bring together the collective expertise of both companies to provide affordable healthcare to potentially millions of Americans. Set to start next year with 15 Walmart Health locations in Georgia and Florida, the collaboration will initially focus on seniors and Medicare Advantage (MA) beneficiaries, and will include a co-branded MA plan in Georgia. Walmart Health Virtual Care will also be in-network for some UnitedHealthcare beneficiaries. Plans for future years involve expanding the collaboration across commercial and Medicaid plans, as well as including pharmacy, dental, and vision services. 

The Gist: We have long wondered if this powerhouse pairing was in the works, as this kind of partnership makes a lot of sense for both parties. While Walmart has reportedly been considering an insurance company acquisition for years, and more recently been dabbling in its own insurance efforts, partnering with UHG provides the retailer with a share of the upside potential of getting into the insurance market without having to fully commit to entering that complex business. And given that 90 percent of Americans live within 10 miles of a Walmart store, and more than half of Americans visit a store every week, Walmart provides UHG with low-cost healthcare access points all over the country, especially important in markets where United’s own Optum physician network is not (yet) present.

The 18 health systems Walmart sends its employees to for care in 2022

In an effort to rein in healthcare costs for its employees, Walmart sends them directly to health systems that demonstrate high-quality care outcomes, otherwise known as Centers of Excellence.

Through the COE program, Walmart will cover the travel and treatment costs for employees seeking a range of services, but only with providers the company is contracted with. Walmart then reimburses with bundled payments negotiated with the providers.

To determine which providers get access to its 1.6 million employees, Walmart starts by examining health systems. Lisa Woods, vice president of physical and emotional well-being at Walmart, and her team analyze public data, distribute requests for information and conduct detailed on-site visits.

Below are the 18 health systems or campuses to which Walmart will refer patients for defined episodes of care in 2022. (See how COE participants have evolved since 2019 or 2021.)

Cardiac

Cleveland Clinic 

Geisinger Medical Center (Danville, Pa.)

Virginia Mason Medical Center (Seattle)

Weight loss surgery

Emory University Hospital (Atlanta)

Geisinger Medical Center (Danville, Pa.)

Intermountain Healthcare (Salt Lake City)

Northeast Baptist Hospital (San Antonio)

Northwest Medical Center (Springdale, Ark.)

Ochsner Medical Center (New Orleans)

Scripps Mercy Hospital (San Diego)

University Hospital (Cleveland)

Spine surgery

Emory University Hospital (Atlanta)

Geisinger Medical Center (Danville, Pa.)

Carolina NeuroSurgery & Spine Associates (Charlotte, N.C.)

Mercy Hospital Springfield (Mo.)

Mayo Clinic Arizona (Phoenix)

Mayo Clinic Florida (Jacksonville)

Mayo Clinic Minnesota (Rochester)

Memorial Hermann-Texas Medical Center (Houston)

Ochsner Medical Center (New Orleans)

Virginia Mason Medical Center (Seattle)

Breast, lung, colorectal, prostate

or blood cancer

Mayo Clinic Arizona (Phoenix)

Mayo Clinic Florida (Jacksonville)

Mayo Clinic Minnesota (Rochester)

Hip and knee replacements

Emory University Hospital (Atlanta)

Geisinger Medical Center (Danville, Pa.)

Johns Hopkins Bayview Medical Center (Baltimore)

Kaiser Permanente Irvine (Calif.) Medical Center

Mayo Clinic Florida (Jacksonville)

Mayo Clinic Minnesota (Rochester)

Mercy Hospital Springfield (Mo.)

Northeast Baptist Hospital (San Antonio)

Ochsner Medical Center (New Orleans)

Scripps Mercy Hospital (San Diego)

University Hospital (Cleveland)

Virginia Mason Medical Center (Seattle)

Organ and tissue transplants

(except cornea and intestinal)

Mayo Clinic Arizona (Phoenix)

Mayo Clinic Florida (Jacksonville)

Mayo Clinic Minnesota (Rochester)